What is "skip" exactly and what is required to do it?

[silvereagle1]

Now before I start I know what skip is and the basics on how to talk skip we all do but I'd like to go deeper than that to get a better understanding on how it works "exactly" and what equiptment works best to do it. I realize a really good base station radio with a good antenna can talk skip all day long without any help but for us mobile users we do need a liitle push to get over the horizon which leads me to this question.. just how much help do we need to be most efective? Is it 4 watts 25 watts 50 watts or 150 watts. I know on any given day 4 watts can talk skip but for me i have to turn the box on just to get above tree tops almost all of the time. So what is the formula? what is the reaching point to "grab" that reflection and where is this magical mirror located? 1 mile above our heads or 2 miles above our head. what is the best way to get to this mirror and where is it located? I know the conditions have to be right that's a given but after that what is our best options? Thanks guys and have fun with this one.

[Savoirfaire]

Go to "Intro to Radios 101" on the website.

Click on "What is Skip 101".

If you have questions afterwards than I am sure other knowledgeable (many on this site) operators and myself will attempt to answer your questions.

73, Frank 10 X-Ray 47 (SSB)

[silvereagle1]

i clicked on that link... it may be my computer but it says web page gone.

[p38]

What your thinking of is s units too gain any decibals you must double your power every time. So from 4 too 8/16/32 et . Skip is in the antenna ,coax and radio recieve. Getting too them is where power comes in!

[Savoirfaire]

Well that is surprising the article is gone?

There is no way to guarantee a contact at a given moment (or all the time).

However, a key in a mobile is grounding all the vehicle together. Doors to frame, tail pipe to frame, engine compartment and cab (if truck) or engine compartment and trunk in a car.

Today's vehicle are not grounded as well from the factory.

Best location for antenna is always the roof, unless you are more interested in a specific direction. However, you sacrifice effectiveness in other directions which cuts down on contacts if skip not reflecting from that direction at that time.

I know on the Superbowl (Channel 6) they run tremendous Power.

However, unless very good conditions it will be impossible to out talk a base with a mobile if the same power level.

You always want good coax (especially if running power), but in a mobile since the coax run is short the difference is very little between LMR400, RG-213, or RG-8.

However, I'd stay with the 1st two as really high power can toast some coax.

I ran 1.2 KW in the 1980's through 2000 with a 102 inch whip on the cab of the truck and sometimes I still could not compete as you said.

However, I made a lot of contacts.

73 Frank 10 X-Ray 47 (SSB)





73, Frank 10 X-Ray 47 (SSB)

[MDYoungblood]

Check out the "Gates" here and it will give you an idea of skip and just like Savoirfaire, power is the key but not always, "Conditions, conditions, conditions"!!!
[Please login or register to view this link]
There were a lot more but the server crash lost quite a few.

3's

Greg

[Grinder74]

Think of skip like skipping rocks across the creek. When you transmit, the radio waves bounce off the ionosphere, and the Earth, and the ionosphere and so on. That is how people talk thousands of miles. The ionosphere is charged from solar flares, that is why skip comes and goes. The charge in the ionosphere is always changing as the flares come and go. It also takes a couple days after a solar flare leaves the Sun to charge the ionosphere and that how it is predicted. This is a page that you can study.
[Please login or register to view this link]

['Doc]

Nothing special is required to 'work' skip. If you can hear them, they can usually hear you. Of course having a stronger signal will make a difference, but that's not a necessary requirement either. Basically, it's a matter of being on the right frequency at the right time to take advantage of propagation.
- 'Doc

[str8stroke]

To add to it, you can "work" skip with 500 milliwatts or 5Kw! Just depends on conditions. So depending on mother nature, you don't need much special stuff. Just patients & timing.


old thread

[Please login or register to view this link]

[Circuit Breaker]

There really isn't anything special needed to work "skip" while mobile. It's all really a matter of what the ionosphere is doing. Several years ago, a friend of mine was talking to a co-worker and telling him what was great about amateur radio. He mentioned how he could talk to people on the east coast any time of day by using different bands based on conditions. The co-worker was a big CBer with a large amplifier. He tried to tell my friend that he could talk to anyone, anywhere and at anytime because of his leeeener amplifier. My friend and I just laughed because it doesn't matter if you're running 25,000 watts....if the conditions aren't right, your signal isn't going anywhere past where it can go using ground wave.

[silvereagle1]

Until recently the Tennessee highway patrol was using low band on their radio system. 42.560 and several other frequencies in that range. They used the low band for years and years. I would hear on my scanner sometimes skip from law enforcement from Nevada and other police agencies out west. The dispatchers sometimes would make comments on air about the west coast skip. It was pretty neat. About a month ago I noticed that I can't pick up THP any longer because they have a new system in place.

[dirtyjob]

when the ionisphere is charged you can talk on stock power, good antenna and conditions, course if you amplify your power you increase probability, have fun.

[Chernobyl1]

As much as Wikipedia is to be taken with a grain of salt there's some good reading on "skip" or "Tropospheric Ducting/Inversion" and it makes for interesting reading. If you're not asleep by the end of that page you should have a few more subjects to search around for to gain a better understanding.

One of the guys further up posted this site as well [Please login or register to view this link] <- the data here predicts all kinds of things, solar storms, flares and a tonne of other data that I'll never understand

[Please login or register to view this link] <- this is a 6 day forecast, it's set for Australia at the moment, there's a drop down box to your upper left which will let you change region, it'll give you a "visual" idea of when skip might occur (predicted obviously, think like the weather man, things change)

[Ohio_359]

Don't confuse tropospheric ducting with F layer refraction.

[peterwo2e]

Now before I start I know what skip is and the basics on how to talk skip we all do but I'd like to go deeper than that to get a better understanding on how it works "exactly" and what equiptment works best to do it. I realize a really good base station radio with a good antenna can talk skip all day long without any help but for us mobile users we do need a liitle push to get over the horizon which leads me to this question.. just how much help do we need to be most efective? Is it 4 watts 25 watts 50 watts or 150 watts. I know on any given day 4 watts can talk skip but for me i have to turn the box on just to get above tree tops almost all of the time. So what is the formula? what is the reaching point to "grab" that reflection and where is this magical mirror located? 1 mile above our heads or 2 miles above our head. what is the best way to get to this mirror and where is it located? I know the conditions have to be right that's a given but after that what is our best options? Thanks guys and have fun with this one.

go to this link and if you ever go for your ham ticket you will be ahead cause this questions would be ask.
[Please login or register to view this link]

[silvereagle1]

I haven't yet but I will.... Fixing to click the link now. I can tell by your post and I mean it as a compliment that you must be old ham from way back. It just shows. I have been studying little by little as I have time to take the tech license. Probably will in a few months. If I'm guessing right I'd say you've built your own radio at some point back in the day. Am I right? Bet I am lol. thanks for the link by the way.

[PANDA1]

Lots of great info here.
one question, do I have to ground everything like doors to frame and muffler to frame like that thread said? Should I be ok in my unibody jeep cherokee?

[drdx]

Welcome. You should probably post a new topic for your question but the quick and dirty answer is that bonding the doors, hatch, hood, exhaust, etc isn't totally necessary for mobile success. That said, it is nice to ensure everything is properly bonded, especially if you have receive noise issues or run lots of power. It may look bonded if you checked with a multi meter but it won't reveal the actual rf resistance aspect of it.

-drdx

[jessejamesdallas]

Welcome. You should probably post a new topic for your question but the quick and dirty answer is that bonding the doors, hatch, hood, exhaust, etc isn't totally necessary for mobile success. That said, it is nice to ensure everything is properly bonded, especially if you have receive noise issues or run lots of power. It may look bonded if you checked with a multi meter but it won't reveal the actual rf resistance aspect of it.

-drdx

drdx is right..."Bonding" is really more for getting rid of unwanted noise than anything...It will however also help with your ground plane effect, and can help lower SWR, but as long as you have a decent antenna system, on a mobile you can still talk DX...AM is a little harder with a stock CB Radio mainly just because of lack of power, but not impossible. A radio with SSB in a mobile is a little different, and a little easier to shoot skip as long as the channels are not totally clogged up with with everyone and their dog all talking at the same time.

Best thing to do tho to talk skip in a mobile (specially on the AM channels) is invest in a Amp... A small 200w Amp can make a world of difference.

[barefoothank]

I yodel out every day ch. 28 on the drive home in Dallas, have been for the last two or three months with my 979 and little wil.
I'm barefoot so yea I never get any action but once in a blue moon having contacted the state of Maine guy and the Keystone state and that keeps me goin. I have noticed that even the motor mouth guy gets stepped on sometimes so funny stuff this skip. My S10 truck is a four door so it has mucho real estate up top, whoops Im rambling sorry...